Joseph starts today’s episode by introducing today’s topic, the role of photography in the creation of the national park. He just got back from the Smokies and was excited by the bewilderment his family found in the mountains. He discusses the coming group of cicadas that only come out every 13-17 years, and are present in huge numbers. He discusses a man helping to discover butterflies in the mountains, and a funny quote from him. On Friday, May 21, he is speaking to educate the public on butterflies. He introduces the annual speaker series coming up and talks about the wildflower season in the mountains. He talks about a website that does daily haiku’s, which had a very fitting one for this conversation as it related to wildflowers. Joseph introduces today’s guest, Janet McCue, and her expansive career. Even though she lives in New York, Janet has contributed much to the mountains, working on projects relating to some of its founders, Horace Kephart and George Masa. Janet discusses some of her accomplishments working at Cornell University as a librarian, comparing her job to that of Horace Kephart’s. She talks about creating a flexible library that blended digital and print in a space made in the 1930s. Joseph actually has works in the library Janet worked in and the two share a laugh about this. Joseph highlights two of Janet’s big accomplishments from her time at the library.


Coming back from the break, Janet and Joseph joke about sharing a drink at the Cornell Club, and Joseph asks how Janet got into writing her book about Horace Kephart. While she may not have had many connections to Horace or his life, Janet’s husband owned a book by him, and the bigger draw to his stories for Janet was the affinity she found for the mountains after backpacking in the Smokies. After learning that Horace had been a librarian, she wrote a paper about him, doing a lot of research about him and becoming even more interested in his life. Both Janet and Horace’s careers actually began at Cornell. After having kids and a busy career in which she put Horace on the backburner, Janet realized that doing something with her Kephart research was on her bucket list. She applied for research leave, traveling collections in different libraries, and meeting people with ties to his life. This led to a collaboration with another writer in which she helped to write an introduction which ended up turning into her biography of Horace. She discusses memories she has of falling in love with the Smokies when she was young. The two share stories of food and hiking spots in the mountains.


Next Janet discusses the motivation for publishing the book with the Great Smoky Mountains Associations, wanting to make sure that the profits from the book were given back to the park, something that reflected Kephart’s own life as he gave a lot to the park. Joseph talks about his own experience with the GSMA, also wanting to support the park. The two move on to George Masa, another interesting artist of the Smokies. Janet looks at the photos of Masa and the words of Kephart together as good partners in helping the nation get to know the Smokies. Their art helped to reach the nation and inform it of why the park needed protection. She reads a quote from Kephart detailing the uniqueness and exceptionality of Masa’s photography. Joseph discusses Rockefeller contributing to the park as a result of Masa’s photos and Janet talks about this as well as his Masa’s photos being sent to other important figures of that time. Masa came to the US from Japan, never becoming a citizen, and even though there is much documentation of his life in the US, there is little known of his early life. Janet discusses documentaries on Masa as well as some of his work in the early development of Asheville.


Moving into the last segment of the day, Joseph introduces an anecdote about Masa’s burial. He died during the depression and was unable to afford to be buried next to Kephart, which was his wish. Neither were buried in the Smokies though. Horace was buried in Bryson City but has a tombstone in Ithaca as his wife was buried there. Although he may have died poor, many cared for Masa, getting money together to erect a tombstone in his honor. Janet talks about her upcoming book, and the difficulty she has found doing research on his early life as Japan is having a resurgence in COVID-19 cases. Janet talks about other things going on in her life, such as being a grandparent with another grandchild on the way. She moves on to talk about dedications for her book on Kephart and people who helped her with different parts of the book. On top of having many people who helped her with her book on Kephart, she has similar stories for her upcoming book on Masa. Joseph ends tonight’s episode by sharing resources of his where he can be reached and where he has materials related to the podcast as well as a preview of next week’s episode’s guest.


00:00:37.980 –> 00:00:38.520 Joseph McElroy: howdy.

00:00:38.670 –> 00:00:43.260 Joseph McElroy: Thanks for joining us on this week’s episode of gateway to the smokies.

00:00:44.070 –> 00:00:52.500 Joseph McElroy: This podcast is about America’s most visited National Park, the great smoky mountains national park, and the surrounding towns.

00:00:52.950 –> 00:01:05.580 Joseph McElroy: This area’s filled with ancient natural beauty a deep storied history and rich mountain cultures that we explore with weekly episodes I am Joseph Franklin McElroy.

00:01:05.910 –> 00:01:17.280 Joseph McElroy: A man of the world, but also with deep roots in these mountains. My family has lived in the great smokies for over 200 years my business is in travel, but my heart is in smoky mountain culture.

00:01:18.240 –> 00:01:28.500 Joseph McElroy: today’s episode we’ll continue our understanding of the founding of the great smoky mountains national park and how photography was instrumental in its creation.

00:01:29.310 –> 00:01:38.490 Joseph McElroy: But first I’m going to tell you that I just got back from the smokies and there are beautiful and the new york’s like a fake background if you’re watching on zoom but.

00:01:38.820 –> 00:01:43.320 Joseph McElroy: I’m down there all the time we were just down there for two weeks, me and my family.

00:01:43.680 –> 00:01:57.780 Joseph McElroy: And there were wonderful and all our families were there, the grandmothers on both sides aunts and uncles my grown son Ethan and my grandma and grandpa McElroy boy my toddler twins just love him.

00:01:59.010 –> 00:02:05.250 Joseph McElroy: And they were also overwhelmed just by the experience they haven’t been there in a year because we’ve been stuck in New York because of a quarantine.

00:02:05.670 –> 00:02:13.110 Joseph McElroy: And they got to see groundhogs and rabbits and squirrels and trout and all sorts of birds,

00:02:13.380 –> 00:02:23.400 Joseph McElroy: I mean we missed the scene red birds and yellow blurred the birds and bluebirds and robbins and they wanted to know all about every one of them, and it was just fantastic giving that spirit that experience.

00:02:23.730 –> 00:02:29.730 Joseph McElroy: And this was all just in the backyard the back, recreation area of the Meadowlark motel, which is our mountain resort.

00:02:30.930 –> 00:02:39.480 Joseph McElroy: And they have just tickled my wife, she got the plant a lot of flowers, including a new wildflower bed at the motel.

00:02:40.230 –> 00:02:42.180 Joseph McElroy: It was absolutely refreshing I’m telling you.

00:02:42.660 –> 00:02:52.680 Joseph McElroy: And we got to go to one of the top barbecue joints in America, the hazelwood smokehouse I recommend it highly they have eight different sauces and everyone is better than the previous one.

00:02:53.040 –> 00:03:03.870 Joseph McElroy: And an actual I took my wife on a birthday dinner outing to a great foodie joint called jargon, it had great food, I had a smoked trout dip.

00:03:04.230 –> 00:03:09.960 Joseph McElroy: And then I had this trout dish I went all trout that night, and it was just unbelievably good.

00:03:10.830 –> 00:03:22.950 Joseph McElroy: But they have these incredible cocktails made one out of a ball of ice that was hollow and they actually poured the mixed mixture into the hollow ice that has a sort of a mix between old fashioned a Manhattan.

00:03:23.460 –> 00:03:27.390 Joseph McElroy: And then, when they served it to you, they took out a little hammer and busted the ball.

00:03:28.920 –> 00:03:35.610 Joseph McElroy: It was a dramatic presentation, so I tell you the smoky mountain is a great place to go.

00:03:36.810 –> 00:03:40.170 Joseph McElroy: it’s also about to have a lot of.

00:03:43.650 –> 00:03:51.150 Joseph McElroy: kickoff I just lost the name I just lost them the name it’s the SCOTUS it’s a staccato apocalypse about is about to happen.

00:03:51.900 –> 00:04:01.950 Joseph McElroy: it’d be on the lookout it’s a rare natural phenomenon historical event that’s unfolding right now and you’ll go through mid-July that’s getting billions of.

00:04:03.150 –> 00:04:13.410 Joseph McElroy: these the 17-year periodical staccato is and they’re going to emerge across a wide swath of these United States, including the great smoky mountains.

00:04:13.890 –> 00:04:22.260 Joseph McElroy: And it’s going to be loud they’re very loud and this periodical SCOTUS comprise a group of species that don’t emerge yearly but.

00:04:22.890 –> 00:04:32.250 Joseph McElroy: Like every 13 or 17 years cycles, and this is the 17-year cycles and they’re already getting reports of them emerging near Knoxville.

00:04:32.670 –> 00:04:45.510 Joseph McElroy: And we expect them to be all across the bit basically the western part of the mountains, the smokies so from looking rock decades cove area so it’s a historical event, you should go see it.

00:04:46.710 –> 00:04:58.140 Joseph McElroy: I also wanted to mention that there’s a there’s smoky science series that’s returning to do with and it’s gonna start with a spotlight on butterflies.

00:04:59.610 –> 00:05:10.050 Joseph McElroy: So the first one is with Warren Bilderberg he spends a lot of time photographing southern Appalachian butterflies in the great smoky mountains, National Park.

00:05:11.250 –> 00:05:21.240 Joseph McElroy: And they might it might you’ll find out why we talked about for emphasizing photography but he willingly admits that he is.

00:05:22.020 –> 00:05:32.610 Joseph McElroy: Did he didn’t really start this journey of butterfly discovery in earnest until retired, but now he’s doing it wholeheartedly and he’s been volunteering caves code.

00:05:32.940 –> 00:05:41.940 Joseph McElroy: I read a quote for him, one day, there was a family of three, with a little girl, maybe 11 or 12 years old, near a group of the blue like butterflies along the road.

00:05:42.240 –> 00:05:53.250 Joseph McElroy: He said I went over and said they look like pipeline swallowtails but then the little girl immediately corrected me and said no, those are spice Bush swallowtails.

00:05:55.140 –> 00:06:00.420 Joseph McElroy: I never heard of them, but she pointed out a very subtle difference between the two, so he had to learn.

00:06:02.640 –> 00:06:11.460 Joseph McElroy: So he’s gonna help other you guys up everybody dive into the world of these southern Appalachian butterflies on Friday may 21 let’s coming up.

00:06:11.850 –> 00:06:25.080 Joseph McElroy: And it’s being organized by discovering life in America and it’s got a free science it’s Sugarland speaker series and sugar land is the gateway to the Smokies in Gatlinburg.

00:06:25.470 –> 00:06:31.380 Joseph McElroy: And they have a whole science Center and things like that and there’s going to be a six-part education series.

00:06:32.610 –> 00:06:34.650 Joseph McElroy: And it should be, it should be very nice.

00:06:35.580 –> 00:06:43.740 Joseph McElroy: It was, it was the series is created in 2017 I think it took a break last year, but it gives regional sciences scientists a chance.

00:06:43.920 –> 00:06:54.780 Joseph McElroy: to share their research with a general audience and answer questions and discuss the latest issues affecting regional biodiversity and concern for conservation and.

00:06:55.290 –> 00:07:00.600 Joseph McElroy: This year will be there will be an annual the annual speaker series start goes from.

00:07:01.200 –> 00:07:09.270 Joseph McElroy: will also be online from one to three on the third Friday of every month and it’s read it is free registration at D Li

00:07:09.960 –> 00:07:17.460 Joseph McElroy: I want to remind you that wildflowers are always a big thing in the spring and it’s still happening, it goes through June.

00:07:18.150 –> 00:07:24.480 Joseph McElroy: The great year because you know you think there’s a small short season for wildflowers, but in the mountains, what happens is.

00:07:24.900 –> 00:07:28.170 Joseph McElroy: The wildfire start in the lower elevation and then, as the.

00:07:28.650 –> 00:07:39.540 Joseph McElroy: As the season gets warmer it’s warmer and warmer up the mountain so different parts of the mountain start having wildfires later in the season, so we haven’t actually along wild.

00:07:40.320 –> 00:07:47.070 Joseph McElroy: flower season in the smoky mountains and it makes for great hiking and different hiking experience every time you go.

00:07:47.430 –> 00:07:53.430 Joseph McElroy: You know it’s blackberries are blooming now and I love blue blackberries and they’ll bloom through June.

00:07:53.790 –> 00:08:07.200 Joseph McElroy: And then they’ll start having blackberries in July and making the bears happy and making me happy because I love Blackberry cobbler I grew up eating Blackberry color I remember going to pick them that and I’ll probably have all podcasts just about blackberries and August.

00:08:10.470 –> 00:08:20.760 Joseph McElroy: Now, speaking of wildflowers my guest is has a connection to the canal library, so I was pursuing the Cornell library website.

00:08:21.300 –> 00:08:33.000 Joseph McElroy: And, and I found that they do a daily haiku and the days were about wow flower, so I had just done this, you know thinking about what the podcast was I said Well, this is really.

00:08:34.260 –> 00:08:58.230 Joseph McElroy: You know opportunistic for me to take them and talk about this, but you can find it at and this one is by an author named cat Lehman and it’s all these haikus are simple but beautiful just another anonymous kindness wildflowers.

00:08:59.340 –> 00:09:01.800 Joseph McElroy: And then another by Carol Pickerington.

00:09:02.880 –> 00:09:08.880 Joseph McElroy: Wildflower field, the colors that don’t get go together do.

00:09:10.860 –> 00:09:12.870 Joseph McElroy: And then Tom painting wrote.

00:09:13.980 –> 00:09:18.450 Joseph McElroy: ending in wildflowers the logging road.

00:09:19.620 –> 00:09:28.470 Joseph McElroy: And for those of you not into hiking you can also ride around in the mountains so don’t forget that especially a motorcycle so I found this haiku as well.

00:09:30.120 –> 00:09:36.030 Joseph McElroy: bikers headlights threading down the mountains moonless night.

00:09:37.470 –> 00:09:47.790 Joseph McElroy: So my guest today is Janet McCue who enjoyed a great career as the former Director of the Mann Library at Cornell University.

00:09:48.180 –> 00:09:58.950 Joseph McElroy: While earning a Stellar reputation as an award-winning Independent Writer and research, she is an avid hiker and naturalist who often visits and writes about the great smokies.

00:09:59.700 –> 00:10:10.230 Joseph McElroy: She has collaborated with a renowned local naturalist George Ellison on several literary projects, most notably backup beyond a horoscope heart biography.

00:10:11.040 –> 00:10:24.510 Joseph McElroy: And it was the winner of the prestigious Thomas Wolfe literary award is received rave reviews and now she’s also currently working I think on a book and a documentary film on another important founder of the smokies George masa.

00:10:25.320 –> 00:10:34.320 Joseph McElroy: She and her husband actually live in the up in New York area, and I think near new Rochelle we were just talking about that so welcome Janet.

00:10:34.740 –> 00:10:43.980 Janet McCue: Well, thank you for that Nice introduction and you started with some poetry, because I hear you two are a poet, so what.

00:10:44.340 –> 00:10:47.910 Joseph McElroy: Was devil the been my biggest claim to.

00:10:47.910 –> 00:10:56.640 Joseph McElroy: fame in terms of poetry, is, I had a poem published on the Jumbotron and Times Square on valentine’s day yeah.

00:10:57.540 –> 00:10:59.850 Janet McCue: that’s almost as good as man library’s website.

00:11:02.160 –> 00:11:15.990 Joseph McElroy: So, so you had a great career at Cornell and you have this stellar reputation can tell you, can you tell some about your proudest accomplishment prior to this new journey of historic mountain lore.

00:11:17.160 –> 00:11:27.390 Janet McCue: Well, I did have a wonderful career Mann library when I think about how that career changed, and when I started as a librarian in 1979.

00:11:28.590 –> 00:11:38.460 Janet McCue: My career looked a lot like what course kept parts career did and 1890 he wrote an article on being a librarian and it starts with.

00:11:38.970 –> 00:11:47.640 Janet McCue: You know he’s trying to do some work and a bevy of sophomores come at the desk a flurry of different kinds of questions.

00:11:47.940 –> 00:11:56.550 Janet McCue: And that’s exactly what the reference desk was like when I started my career when I ended my career, though it was very much a digital world and.

00:11:57.120 –> 00:12:15.810 Janet McCue: I loved being able to grow up as a librarian within that very dynamic world, but you know, a couple of things that I’m really proud of in terms of my career one we built and we took a building that was designed in the 1930s.

00:12:16.980 –> 00:12:29.640 Janet McCue: But not built until the 1950s and created a library that was so flexible that you could move through different periods of digital and print information.

00:12:30.120 –> 00:12:40.920 Janet McCue: Ahead of a very collaborative style to it so students, could you know work in groups of two working groups of five it was no longer than the hushing kind of library.

00:12:41.640 –> 00:13:01.980 Janet McCue: But it was very much a vibrant place The other thing I loved and I alluded to this in your own poetry we tried to blend science and art, we had a gallery in our library, we have haiku that was presented every morning and subscribers from all over the world.

00:13:02.250 –> 00:13:04.560 Joseph McElroy: You know I’m in your library, by the way, you.

00:13:05.550 –> 00:13:08.700 Joseph McElroy: know that I actually have work in your library.

00:13:09.030 –> 00:13:09.900 Janet McCue: Oh come on JESSICA.

00:13:10.740 –> 00:13:15.510 Joseph McElroy: Do you have the Rose gold and archive of new media art.

00:13:16.350 –> 00:13:21.510 Joseph McElroy: In, there is the computer Fine Arts COM and I have two pieces in that collection.

00:13:21.930 –> 00:13:29.190 Janet McCue: Oh, my gosh that’s amazing I mean that we do I mean rose gold sweets collection is extraordinary.

00:13:29.400 –> 00:13:43.530 Janet McCue: yeah that is in the special collections and I was in more the science and for now, but, at the last five years of my career, I was in the same library that held the Rose gold, so we did we were in the same library.

00:13:44.160 –> 00:13:45.960 Joseph McElroy: Well, I have to go look in the cabinet.

00:13:46.710 –> 00:13:47.190 Janet McCue: In there.

00:13:47.550 –> 00:13:52.980 Joseph McElroy: I imagine it’s probably not working right now, you have to go back to the library because flashes are no longer working

00:13:53.640 –> 00:14:02.430 Joseph McElroy: On most people’s computers, these days, I have to figure out how to that’s something that Librarians need to figure out how to do is what are you gonna do about technologies that ages out.

00:14:02.640 –> 00:14:02.970 that’s.

00:14:04.110 –> 00:14:10.350 Janet McCue: What one of the major I mean you, I mean I retired seven years ago, and that was still one of the things that.

00:14:10.440 –> 00:14:11.280 Janet McCue: You know that.

00:14:11.490 –> 00:14:13.590 Janet McCue: puzzling us and it’s still puzzling us so.

00:14:14.040 –> 00:14:22.500 Joseph McElroy: you’re right well I’m about to go to break, but I don’t want to, I want to mention two things I really was impressed by you hired the first Metadata library.

00:14:23.880 –> 00:14:34.560 Joseph McElroy: And I’m big on Metadata has become part of the underlying infrastructure of the Internet and you also led the renovation of the modern library, to make it happen to create a sustainable CAFE.

00:14:34.980 –> 00:14:40.380 Joseph McElroy: which you know I’m big into state sustainability and Meadowlark is three pints sustainable designated.

00:14:41.400 –> 00:14:49.800 Joseph McElroy: lodging and only one west of Asheville so anyway, when we come back we’re gonna talk more about your research into Horace and George.

00:14:50.400 –> 00:14:53.010 Janet McCue: Okay we’ll look forward to it, thank you, Joseph.

00:17:50.610 –> 00:18:04.500 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcast and my guest Janet McCue so Janet you know I forgot to mention you come to the Cornell Club in New York City.

00:18:05.460 –> 00:18:16.200 Janet McCue: Occasionally, when I take the bus from campus to campus to campus bus is a godsend for linking upstate New York Ithaca

00:18:17.550 –> 00:18:23.280 Janet McCue: to Manhattan yes, when the Cornell club is our destination.

00:18:23.580 –> 00:18:31.410 Joseph McElroy: Well, you know I ask is because we actually Duke does not have a club, but the Duke made a deal with Cornell and I’m able to go that Club too.

00:18:37.980 –> 00:18:39.000 Joseph McElroy: all over the place here.

00:18:39.780 –> 00:18:42.810 Janet McCue: Well, we can we’ll have to have a drink sometime at one of the.

00:18:44.700 –> 00:18:45.270 Janet McCue: spots that.

00:18:45.300 –> 00:18:49.830 Joseph McElroy: Maybe they’ll have one of those ice balls and they’ll crack it in front of me that’d be great.

00:18:51.600 –> 00:19:01.740 Joseph McElroy: So you had a great career at Cornell so how did you get into writing a book about Horrace Kephart the founder of the great smoky mountains co-founder.

00:19:02.490 –> 00:19:06.120 Janet McCue: yeah, it is a bit, it is a bit odd that a woman who I’m

00:19:07.260 –> 00:19:08.010 Janet McCue: a

00:19:09.690 –> 00:19:23.970 Janet McCue: Movement of work sick right now lives in upstate New York would delve into for the last 40 years about a man who, who was born in Iowa and spent the last you know 30 years of his life in.

00:19:24.930 –> 00:19:41.100 Janet McCue: In the smokies but you know there were lots of intersections which I, you know people are often surprised at the intersections I mean my first one was my husband had a copy of Khepart camping and woodcraft a copy of his book on his bookshelf and.

00:19:42.150 –> 00:19:49.920 Janet McCue: He in many respects, taught us how to build a campfire I mean we were both city kids I grew up in Pittsburgh he grew up in cities, all over the world.

00:19:51.270 –> 00:19:58.380 Janet McCue: Neither of our parents taught us how to build a campfire so we learned a lot from Horrace Kephart’s book.

00:19:59.280 –> 00:20:13.590 Janet McCue: We also were avid backpack backpackers and one of our first trips was into the smokies and we had several subsequent trips to the smokies, including one when we went to brace in place which was Cornell’s which was counterparts.

00:20:16.590 –> 00:20:21.810 Janet McCue: A favorite spot that he had spent a great deal of time in, particularly in the summers.

00:20:22.860 –> 00:20:42.750 Janet McCue: So the smokies and the beauty of the smokies were really what drew me to Kephart’s story, because as far as I knew, you know Kephart played an instrumental role in the establishment Smokies I would learn that you know little tidbits of the story, as on these backpacking trips.

00:20:43.980 –> 00:20:45.360 Janet McCue: And when I came to.

00:20:46.380 –> 00:20:49.590 Janet McCue: I came to Grad school at the University of Michigan.

00:20:50.580 –> 00:21:10.020 Janet McCue: I had learned from my husband Kephart had been a librarian and I decided to do a research paper at some point for our research methods class on Kephart and discovered his career as a librarian discovered George Ellison’s introduction to our Southern highlanders read Kephart’s books.

00:21:11.310 –> 00:21:22.110 Janet McCue: And you know became even more interested in the man and as luck would have it, my first job was at Cornell and Cornell’s career as a librarian started.

00:21:23.370 –> 00:21:24.750 Janet McCue: At Cornell.

00:21:25.080 –> 00:21:27.060 Janet McCue: marks efforts career started.

00:21:27.450 –> 00:21:28.980 Joseph McElroy: I didn’t know that wow.

00:21:29.670 –> 00:21:34.380 Janet McCue: So he came to Cornell as a Grad student and history and in.

00:21:36.090 –> 00:21:39.120 Janet McCue: Political science and he.

00:21:41.370 –> 00:21:54.120 Janet McCue: began working in the libraries and was hired by the first by Cornell’s first library and will learn Fisk and, in fact, went to Italy with Fisk and.

00:21:55.110 –> 00:22:06.600 Janet McCue: and help collect and help catalog the Petrarch and Dante collection which Cornell has so you had lots of connections into Cornell and I was at Cornell.

00:22:07.380 –> 00:22:20.100 Janet McCue: I used to do research on Saturday mornings in the archives and you know learn again learn more about kept part but then you know I had kids I had a busy career and I put them on the back burner for many years.

00:22:21.210 –> 00:22:30.210 Janet McCue: And then I was doing a cross country ski trip with a group of friends and one of my friends asked me what I wanted to do before I died and.

00:22:31.170 –> 00:22:40.590 Janet McCue: I listed a couple of things one was taking dance lessons with my husband, which I think because it was on that death list he actually did it with making.

00:22:42.900 –> 00:22:51.150 Janet McCue: but also on that list was do something with my Kephart research and she asked me a very important question she said what’s stopping you and.

00:22:51.810 –> 00:23:00.690 Janet McCue: So I had to answer that question that nothing is stopping me, so I am I applied for research leave and went to St Louis went to.

00:23:01.200 –> 00:23:15.480 Janet McCue: Western North Carolina archives went to brown university and various archival collections that filled in more gaps on you know, on Kephart story, and then in 2009 I met George Ellison.

00:23:16.800 –> 00:23:21.450 Janet McCue: Libby Kephart Hargrave is the great-granddaughter of Horrace

00:23:21.930 –> 00:23:24.720 Joseph McElroy: Kephart in his famous he was just on our show.

00:23:24.930 –> 00:23:34.950 Janet McCue: Right right, so you know all your listeners know all of us apart, but Libby established something called Kephart days and a librarian from.

00:23:36.720 –> 00:23:47.430 Janet McCue: Alaska, believe it or not, told me about Kephart’s days and because he knew of my interest in Kephart and so I decided to go down and that’s where I met George that’s where I met Libby.

00:23:48.420 –> 00:24:02.310 Janet McCue: I had you know, a group of friends and colleagues that I am honored to have in my life today who have helped me tremendously so at that point, George was writing an introduction to.

00:24:02.940 –> 00:24:09.090 Janet McCue: A new edition of camping and woodcraft and he asked me to collaborate with him because he knew that I had done.

00:24:10.320 –> 00:24:16.290 Janet McCue: Research on care products early career on his break down the whole.

00:24:18.930 –> 00:24:26.100 Janet McCue: trauma that actually led Kephart to the smokies, and so we had a great collaboration and.

00:24:27.540 –> 00:24:30.720 Joseph McElroy: that’s the one that ended up being like an 80-page introduction right.

00:24:30.750 –> 00:24:31.470 Janet McCue: Yes, it was.

00:24:33.300 –> 00:24:44.040 Joseph McElroy: I just do my research, I saw it, and I didn’t get a chance to read it, because it wasn’t a bit usually I tried to find everything online, but this isn’t available online so.

00:24:45.120 –> 00:24:46.380 Joseph McElroy: What was the.

00:24:46.680 –> 00:24:48.300 Joseph McElroy: What was the gist of your introduction.

00:24:49.020 –> 00:24:51.210 Janet McCue: Well, you know we have is pretty much a biography.

00:24:51.240 –> 00:24:55.530 Janet McCue: In the making right in fact after we read that introduction.

00:24:56.970 –> 00:25:10.170 Janet McCue: The great smoky mountains association Steve camp was the publication’s director at the time, he asked us if we can expand it into a full-length biography, and so it was really.

00:25:11.160 –> 00:25:18.060 Janet McCue: From my perspective is the start of my collaboration with George which was you know just pure pleasure.

00:25:18.810 –> 00:25:35.880 Janet McCue: he’s a wonderful writer, and you know his knowledge of the lived in the smokies I didn’t live in the smokies and you know we could blend our both our voices, as well as our knowledge base and be able to you know to write a full-length biography.

00:25:36.720 –> 00:25:45.780 Joseph McElroy: So you so do you in your do you do, you get to come down, did you get to come down quite a bit for the smoke in the smokies when you were doing that book.

00:25:46.770 –> 00:25:50.040 Janet McCue: I did, yes, I spent a good portion of.

00:25:51.210 –> 00:25:54.780 Janet McCue: I would try and come down, just like you say come down in the spring and we’re just.

00:25:56.160 –> 00:26:12.180 Janet McCue: You know I fell in love with the smokies as a young person, and you know so coming back to see yellow trillium are painted trillium or you know mine has a vivid memory of of of a hike when we were at the top of.

00:26:13.350 –> 00:26:23.100 Janet McCue: The top of the trail and we read treetop level and tool of popularly tool popular land and just being able to smell, a tool of popular blossom.

00:26:24.570 –> 00:26:37.230 Janet McCue: In on a trail and a hiking trail is this just an incredible yeah I had my first taste of ramps in the smokies you know I I became aware of the beauties of nature.

00:26:38.670 –> 00:26:41.790 Joseph McElroy: So weird to me that ramps have become so popular I.

00:26:41.790 –> 00:26:43.170 Joseph McElroy: Know whole foods.

00:26:43.440 –> 00:26:56.190 Joseph McElroy: Yes, like I grew up and I, you know I used to distinguish myself by telling people yeah yeah why ramps whenever you’re what’s ramps and get to tell them all about it now it’s like they already know it’s took it away, one of my standards.

00:26:59.910 –> 00:27:01.350 Janet McCue: Were you know some fisherman.

00:27:02.430 –> 00:27:11.280 Janet McCue: You know, we thought we were in the middle of a wilderness because we had been hiking for in our hiking trips for like a week to 10 days we hadn’t seen anybody.

00:27:11.640 –> 00:27:20.250 Janet McCue: And then we ran across these fishermen, one day, who offered us bacon and ramps and something else I can’t remember, but you.

00:27:20.250 –> 00:27:20.370 know.

00:27:21.810 –> 00:27:23.280 Janet McCue: In the middle of a hiking trip was.

00:27:23.400 –> 00:27:36.120 Joseph McElroy: scrambled eggs, what do you know, one of the great dishes for the ramps is to do scrambled eggs and bacon grease with a side of given ramps and scrambled eggs it’s just unbelievably good.

00:27:36.390 –> 00:27:37.680 Joseph McElroy: You know Waynesville.

00:27:37.860 –> 00:27:56.190 Joseph McElroy: In Haywood county near Maggie Valley, where I have my motel has the long I think it’s one of the longest-running natural foods festivals in the nation is called the ways will ramp this every August, I think that even a resume that this year that’s a worthwhile coronary.

00:27:56.190 –> 00:27:57.390 Janet McCue: expand that good.

00:27:57.510 –> 00:27:57.870 Janet McCue: yeah.

00:27:57.960 –> 00:28:06.090 Joseph McElroy: We all the different kinds of food, you can get from this mountain delicacy that’s now become somewhat in thing and.

00:28:07.710 –> 00:28:10.440 Joseph McElroy: restaurant menus I see it, all over the place.

00:28:11.400 –> 00:28:14.490 Joseph McElroy: Do you have any other favorite hiking spots before we go to the break.

00:28:14.910 –> 00:28:24.480 Janet McCue: Well I’m gonna mention one because I got an email message from a colleague of mine called Ken wise and I actually lost my wedding ring and the smokies we had.

00:28:24.720 –> 00:28:25.860 Joseph McElroy: married he was smoking they’re.

00:28:27.960 –> 00:28:38.070 Janet McCue: looking for a fisherman find my wedding ring on it was a day, where it, you know torrential rain, we had maybe 15 stream crossings.

00:28:38.610 –> 00:28:51.990 Janet McCue: And at some point, I slipped on a rock I was like a turtle in the water, with my backpack pulling me down and before my brain could tell my finger to curl the current just pulled the.

00:28:52.020 –> 00:28:54.510 Janet McCue: wedding ring off of my fingers, so it was.

00:28:55.770 –> 00:29:09.000 Janet McCue: I think of the lowland creek area as being you know both a dramatic spot, but certainly a memorable spot in my friend, Ken said that he says.

00:29:10.560 –> 00:29:17.850 Janet McCue: He was recently backpacking there, and he scanned the creek a bit to see if I can find your missing ring your ring is somewhere in the creek.

00:29:18.690 –> 00:29:28.860 Janet McCue: But then he couldn’t help but look up and down any of the creeks to see if they could find it and he said, of course, when the water flows over a rock the water sparkles just like a diamond.

00:29:30.720 –> 00:29:34.380 Joseph McElroy: So now we’re going to crowdsource everybody’s crowdsources finding her.

00:29:34.560 –> 00:29:34.740 way.

00:29:36.360 –> 00:29:37.500 Joseph McElroy: So you come back to.

00:29:38.460 –> 00:29:44.520 Joseph McElroy: The from the break we’ll talk more about the books and your new books coming out okay.

00:29:44.670 –> 00:29:45.120 Janet McCue: Thank you.

00:32:34.170 –> 00:32:42.960 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest Janet McCue.

00:32:43.500 –> 00:32:55.380 Joseph McElroy: So Janet you, you have it, you have a collaboration out already a nice book that is actually considered one of the most definitive works or bios on Kephart ever written is called back and beyond.

00:32:56.160 –> 00:33:03.300 Joseph McElroy: it’s received rave reviews so So this was published by the great smoky mountains associations right.

00:33:04.290 –> 00:33:11.070 Joseph McElroy: Yes, the other Francis figure and Libby Kephart Hargrave have both been guests there.

00:33:12.930 –> 00:33:14.250 Janet McCue: Bombing good company, then.

00:33:14.280 –> 00:33:19.260 Joseph McElroy: During good What was it like to work with the great smoky mountain association or good company right.

00:33:19.620 –> 00:33:34.290 Janet McCue: Oh, it was wonderful I mean you know I think both George and I felt it was important to publish through the smokies because we wanted profits from the book to to to go to support this monkeys programs and display the smokies park.

00:33:35.460 –> 00:33:43.470 Janet McCue: kept parts story is so much about the protection of the great smoky mountain National Park.

00:33:45.030 –> 00:33:57.120 Janet McCue: He said that you know he felt that the mountains and saved his life, and that was you know the last 10 years of his life we’re very focused on making sure that the park was established.

00:33:57.810 –> 00:34:12.150 Janet McCue: So George and I felt that same commitment but you know, Francis was my editor we’ve worked with Steve kemp core camping and woodcraft introduction, but Steve retired and Francis was hired and she was absolute.

00:34:12.720 –> 00:34:13.350 Joseph McElroy: pleasure to.

00:34:14.400 –> 00:34:22.980 Janet McCue: she’s a wonderful editor and incredible storyteller and she never lost her temper at me and my use of commerce, you know

00:34:24.420 –> 00:34:29.520 Janet McCue: I know she kept trying to teach me but I didn’t have time to learn all the rules of commas, and she knew them all.

00:34:30.780 –> 00:34:38.730 Janet McCue: No truly I was reading a book, the other night, and I finished it, I said to my husband this person needed Francis.

00:34:38.820 –> 00:34:39.450 This person.

00:34:42.120 –> 00:34:43.800 Joseph McElroy: is very, very, very confident.

00:34:44.040 –> 00:34:50.760 Joseph McElroy: You know I I really liked the great smoky mountain sessions, because, again, all the proceeds go to help.

00:34:51.120 –> 00:34:58.800 Joseph McElroy: The support that the great smoky mountain Park, because you know, there is no entrance fee to the park, so it has the way I the way support you know, and I.

00:34:59.490 –> 00:35:07.620 Joseph McElroy: I created my storefronts and everything for this, I made the decision to go for the most part, instead of through Amazon to go through the group.

00:35:07.620 –> 00:35:13.620 Joseph McElroy: GSA and that means I have to do, shipping, but you know we are books are also GS ma what we sell.

00:35:14.700 –> 00:35:18.780 Joseph McElroy: And it goes directly to support the great smoky mountains and national and you know.

00:35:19.380 –> 00:35:33.240 Joseph McElroy: we’re going to be doing a lot of stuff about CAP hard at the metal Arc we launched the middle like smoky mountain heritage Center hope you can that we’re gonna be doing a number of programs on care part over the next year I joined us.

00:35:35.790 –> 00:35:47.280 Janet McCue: archives have been closed for such a long time, so you know, in the past year I haven’t been able to do any research in you know, in a remote location, other than my own personal library, or what I can find.

00:35:47.670 –> 00:35:58.800 Janet McCue: in a digital world but I’m looking forward to being done both that in western North Carolina and Tennessee because of their radar couch and blitz places.

00:35:59.730 –> 00:36:09.240 Joseph McElroy: So, in the meantime, this is what I want to, I want to learn more about I don’t know a lot about George masa and you will you bought the book and a documentary film about him.

00:36:09.360 –> 00:36:27.930 Janet McCue: Not not a documentary film I’m not a filmmaker but I’m collaborating with steel and Paul did an absolutely wonderful film on George masa in which you can find online through then mo so um I definitely recommend.

00:36:30.300 –> 00:36:34.680 Janet McCue: Watch his film if you’re at all interested in George masa.

00:36:35.970 –> 00:36:47.250 Janet McCue: Georgian and kept part I like to think of kept our words and and and mosses photos being you know just this dynamic collaboration.

00:36:48.270 –> 00:37:10.950 Janet McCue: For inviting people to get to know these monkeys to appreciate the beauty that was there, I mean that there weren’t you know the nation didn’t really know the smokies and in 1920 1930 they were a terra incognita and I think it was through carrots words and George mosses.

00:37:13.110 –> 00:37:20.160 Janet McCue: photos that people got to know, an area that you know became so beloved we, I mean.

00:37:20.190 –> 00:37:20.730 Joseph McElroy: This book.

00:37:20.850 –> 00:37:29.220 Janet McCue: As you mentioned it doesn’t have an entrance fee, but it has it’s the most heavily used National Park in the National Park system so.

00:37:29.910 –> 00:37:40.290 Janet McCue: People did discover it, but those early years people needed to know why it was worth being you know it, why it was worth protecting and that’s what I think both.

00:37:41.310 –> 00:37:43.560 Janet McCue: kept part and masa did.

00:37:43.800 –> 00:37:46.800 Joseph McElroy: Well wasn’t masa considered Angela Adam of the.

00:37:46.800 –> 00:37:47.490 Janet McCue: East yes.

00:37:47.850 –> 00:37:50.580 Janet McCue: Yes, he was, I mean he’s you know that.

00:37:50.880 –> 00:37:55.080 Janet McCue: and his photography is exquisite I mean he.

00:37:56.160 –> 00:38:01.890 Janet McCue: You know I actually pulled out a couple of quotes that I thought I might I might read.

00:38:04.080 –> 00:38:05.490 Janet McCue: Kephart himself said.

00:38:06.690 –> 00:38:07.110 That.

00:38:09.030 –> 00:38:16.110 Janet McCue: By judicious use of various Ray filters and an uncanny skill and time exposures he must.

00:38:16.380 –> 00:38:22.620 Janet McCue: has overcome the difficulties of haze and cloudy weather, which often Bach an amateur photographer and the smokies.

00:38:22.890 –> 00:38:35.370 Janet McCue: The result is a series of about 50 views of wild mountains and gorgeous deep forest naked crags trout streams and waterfalls camp scenes close-ups and blooming shrubs and wilderness wildflowers.

00:38:35.850 –> 00:38:44.940 Janet McCue: The like of which is not to be fun elsewhere in masses collection, you know I mean he is photography the so far above you know, a.

00:38:45.990 –> 00:38:47.850 Janet McCue: North Bay in our regular.

00:38:49.050 –> 00:38:50.460 Janet McCue: photographer that.

00:38:52.170 –> 00:39:05.640 Janet McCue: The head of the National Park association all kinds of people who had seen many, many photos of the smokies praised losses as being far and above any of those other.

00:39:06.270 –> 00:39:13.140 Joseph McElroy: didn’t hit what didn’t gem Carnegie see his photos and decided to give $5 million to the effort to create that.

00:39:13.200 –> 00:39:13.530 well.

00:39:15.300 –> 00:39:27.840 Janet McCue: You know I went to the Rockefeller aka archives and sleepy hollow and we couldn’t locate any of masses photos there, so he also had photos from Jim Thompson who was in Knoxville.

00:39:28.440 –> 00:39:35.970 Janet McCue: That um and you know Steve Camp is actually working on a book on Rockefeller now and maybe he’ll be able to.

00:39:36.210 –> 00:39:36.630 Take.

00:39:37.980 –> 00:39:38.850 Janet McCue: awesome photos but.

00:39:40.230 –> 00:39:54.450 Janet McCue: You know the camera, who was the associate director of the National Park Service at the time gathered all the photos that he could and took them to Rockefeller but we don’t know exactly which photos he took to John D Rockefeller jr.

00:39:54.720 –> 00:39:54.990 Janet McCue: But.

00:39:55.440 –> 00:39:58.950 Janet McCue: I think that was certainly an important element.

00:39:59.160 –> 00:40:01.200 Joseph McElroy: motors, or there.

00:40:01.560 –> 00:40:01.830 Janet McCue: yeah.

00:40:01.860 –> 00:40:13.170 Janet McCue: Masa did send a photo album to Coolidge he sent one to each of them to the Governor of North Carolina and the Governor of Tennessee so he can he did send Rockefellers photo we do have.

00:40:13.530 –> 00:40:27.570 Janet McCue: evidence that he sent a picture of Rockefeller to Rockefeller and we have Rockefellers’ response to him, so he was not shy about sharing the beauty of his photography so.

00:40:28.590 –> 00:40:39.300 Joseph McElroy: This is so interesting he was coming from Japan, and he never became an American citizen, but I guess, just as love this this this wilderness drove him to become such a.

00:40:39.660 –> 00:40:43.080 Janet McCue: Well, he wouldn’t have been allowed to be a citizen.

00:40:43.470 –> 00:40:44.010 Joseph McElroy: Right.

00:40:44.160 –> 00:40:46.020 Janet McCue: You know, and that time.

00:40:47.280 –> 00:41:00.210 Janet McCue: So he was an extraordinary amount of discrimination that and legislation that you know limited the number of people coming from Asian countries at that time.

00:41:00.930 –> 00:41:13.650 Janet McCue: So we don’t we know there’s a lot we don’t know about mouse’s early life we have pretty good documentation from 1915 to 1933 when he died.

00:41:14.970 –> 00:41:16.740 Janet McCue: But we know very little.

00:41:18.060 –> 00:41:19.320 Janet McCue: Yet about.

00:41:20.370 –> 00:41:34.950 Janet McCue: His early life, I mean we know he came to this country, you know, maybe and the 1910s maybe earlier, I mean we have some different information and different documents, where he lived where his family lived.

00:41:36.090 –> 00:41:42.210 Janet McCue: You know we’re still researching that area, Paul Paul bones still is, who.

00:41:43.980 –> 00:41:56.400 Janet McCue: I’m working with and in his film that his film which he did you know more than 15 years ago was on was called the mystery of George masa and.

00:41:56.910 –> 00:42:08.730 Janet McCue: The mysteries surrounding his his his early life, but he was remarkable to me, he was hired to work in the laundry room at the grove park in.

00:42:09.540 –> 00:42:29.370 Janet McCue: In 1915 five years later he established his own photography studio in Nashville and you know, he was photographing the Biltmore estates, he was all you know the Asheville City Hall high school, I mean all the important buildings.

00:42:30.840 –> 00:42:44.640 Janet McCue: That and all the important infrastructure that was being you know created and those boom years of Asheville some history, you know masa was the man on the spot, I actually watched a.

00:42:46.350 –> 00:42:56.370 Janet McCue: A Ripley’s, believe it or not, that that masa had done the I was you know was fun to see that I think was Warren or.

00:42:57.870 –> 00:42:58.710 Janet McCue: brothers that.

00:42:59.970 –> 00:43:00.630 Janet McCue: That had.

00:43:02.010 –> 00:43:08.310 Janet McCue: reissued the these these these old Ripley’s, believe it or not, one of them was.

00:43:08.490 –> 00:43:09.120 Joseph McElroy: The best your.

00:43:09.540 –> 00:43:10.080 Janet McCue: yeah yeah.

00:43:10.260 –> 00:43:17.940 Joseph McElroy: I love that they started in the hospitality industry in the mountains yeah yeah yeah the growth market is I mean that’s the.

00:43:18.240 –> 00:43:24.210 Joseph McElroy: that’s the premiere That was the premier place for presidents and a beautiful place.

00:43:25.050 –> 00:43:26.730 Joseph McElroy: Oh it’s absolutely gorgeous I.

00:43:27.210 –> 00:43:32.040 Janet McCue: know that my husband and I when we publish the book that was the first place, we went for dinner.

00:43:33.600 –> 00:43:43.440 Janet McCue: party and we did a tour of the girl parking and had dinner out in you know out on the patio was just absolutely beautiful.

00:43:43.710 –> 00:43:48.480 Joseph McElroy: Well, I look forward to taking the kids to see the gingerbread houses and Christmas.

00:43:50.280 –> 00:43:50.790 Beautiful.

00:43:54.270 –> 00:44:06.030 Janet McCue: On the third, I think it’s on the third floor they have a TV set up around you know digital box set up and they run continuously paul’s documentary so you can watch it up there.

00:44:06.060 –> 00:44:07.680 Janet McCue: Okay, take the girls.

00:44:08.640 –> 00:44:17.520 Joseph McElroy: There we go, so I when we come back you’ll tell us about a little bit more about your book and yeah what’s your future plans are okay.

00:44:17.730 –> 00:44:18.150 Janet McCue: Thank you.

00:44:25.980 –> 00:44:26.130 In.

00:46:02.370 –> 00:46:02.790 Unless.

00:46:36.630 –> 00:46:47.310 Joseph McElroy: howdy this is Joseph Franklin McElroy back with the gateway to the smokies podcasts and my guest Janet McCue and we’ve been talking about George masa you know.

00:46:47.910 –> 00:46:59.130 Joseph McElroy: When I was reading about George one of the stories of me tearing up was he you know he died at 45 and he could basically catch the flu right and.

00:46:59.850 –> 00:47:13.590 Joseph McElroy: And he couldn’t afford anything and they really get treated in the sanitarium where he died and in the great tragedies he really wanted to be buried next to kept part and he couldn’t afford it that’s sort of like sort of say.

00:47:14.880 –> 00:47:18.360 Janet McCue: yeah well you know, it was the middle of the depression, I mean.

00:47:18.990 –> 00:47:26.760 Janet McCue: You know photographer I’m trying to eke out a living in the middle of oppression can’t have been easy and.

00:47:28.290 –> 00:47:41.040 Janet McCue: You know, as it, as it turned out, I mean Kephart himself wasn’t buried in the smokies Kephart’s tombstone is embracing the city and he was also  in a borrowed

00:47:41.790 –> 00:47:52.560 Janet McCue: lot I mean no one expected that he would die a car accident and also he was not a wealthy man and certainly neither was George Masa.

00:47:53.610 –> 00:48:10.920 Janet McCue: So it’s neither of them were actually buried in the smokies and in fact, the smokies policy was to you know, rightly so, was not to have only if you were a family member of an original family who lived in the smokies

00:48:11.280 –> 00:48:12.480 Janet McCue: Could you read their

00:48:14.400 –> 00:48:16.380 Joseph McElroy: Cities is a gateway to the smoky so.

00:48:17.130 –> 00:48:17.640 Janet McCue: that’s true.

00:48:18.060 –> 00:48:19.170 Joseph McElroy: That whole area is actually.

00:48:19.170 –> 00:48:22.680 Joseph McElroy: smoky mountains, I consider Haywood county smokey.

00:48:23.940 –> 00:48:25.230 Joseph McElroy: got the park me love it.

00:48:25.230 –> 00:48:38.790 Janet McCue: yeah well, while we’re talking about tombstones people were surprised to hear that in Ithaca and the ethic of city cemetery there’s a tombstone for Horace Kephart and for Laura his wife.

00:48:39.270 –> 00:48:44.310 Janet McCue: And there you know George is Kephart is buried embracing city, but.

00:48:45.390 –> 00:48:50.160 Janet McCue: Laura and in Horace, although they never lived together after 1908.

00:48:51.270 –> 00:49:02.580 Janet McCue: They remained married and Laura always said she wanted to be buried by Kephart two, so, in addition to George masa wanting to be buried by her.

00:49:04.050 –> 00:49:19.020 Janet McCue: LIFE to do so, it turns out, you know George George masa is part of the riverside’s cemetery has a walking tour and oh Henry is there, Thomas Wolfe is there on this walking tour, but so is George masa.

00:49:19.290 –> 00:49:19.860 Joseph McElroy: And you know.

00:49:21.480 –> 00:49:44.430 Janet McCue: Even, even though you know his the hiking club actually raised money to bury him and the hiking club raised money to erect a stone, this is the Carolina mountain club they raised the money to erect a stone in his honor and 20 years later, the petition, the government to name.

00:49:45.480 –> 00:49:54.750 Janet McCue: A peak after George masa you know so he like to think that, although he may have died penniless who did not die friendless he had.

00:49:55.260 –> 00:49:55.710 Joseph McElroy: And he didn’t.

00:49:56.430 –> 00:50:03.870 Joseph McElroy: He didn’t die for this guy anybody yeah that’s that sounds like you lived incredible wife, so what is your book about him coming out.

00:50:04.770 –> 00:50:20.340 Janet McCue: Well, we think 2023 we’ve had a big delay this past year because of our inability to do research but we’ve been working hard on all the parts that we could do research on Japan right now is having a bit of a.

00:50:21.840 –> 00:50:24.150 Janet McCue: the resurgence of code and you.

00:50:24.930 –> 00:50:34.320 Janet McCue: Know it’s difficult to do research in Japan as well, and the end that both Paul and I are committed to you know uncovering anything we can about his early life.

00:50:34.890 –> 00:50:35.790 Joseph McElroy: that’s a great thing.

00:50:37.590 –> 00:50:41.760 Janet McCue: So, but we’re hoping 2023 or the smokies thanks, for them.

00:50:42.330 –> 00:50:44.190 Joseph McElroy: Can I get a copy when it comes out.

00:50:44.250 –> 00:50:47.400 Joseph McElroy: Maybe maybe a debuted on my podcast.

00:50:52.140 –> 00:50:56.010 Joseph McElroy: cool and then I guess it could be sold through the great smoky mountains association.

00:50:57.810 –> 00:51:04.200 Joseph McElroy: Eventually Amazon so we’ll look for it I’ll be sure to mention it when it comes out and hopefully you’ll actually come on tell me about it.

00:51:05.070 –> 00:51:08.820 Joseph McElroy: So any other projects you’re working on that you’d like to share with us.

00:51:09.570 –> 00:51:14.340 Janet McCue: Well, the only project right now I’m working on is being a grandparent and waiting.

00:51:15.540 –> 00:51:26.130 Janet McCue: My son and daughter in law expecting a new child and the next week so I’m actually not in the finger Lakes area I’m in new Rochelle right now.

00:51:26.580 –> 00:51:38.160 Janet McCue: And I’m enjoying getting to know my 20-month-old grandson whom we haven’t seen for a long time so we’re trying to read learn our skills for babysitting so.

00:51:39.720 –> 00:51:40.680 Janet McCue: A real pleasure.

00:51:40.950 –> 00:51:44.820 Joseph McElroy: that’s good yeah I know I’m over the age of maybe.

00:51:45.900 –> 00:51:48.720 Joseph McElroy: I have almost three-year-old twins so.

00:51:49.890 –> 00:51:53.580 Joseph McElroy: I can give you some insights from daily interaction.

00:51:55.590 –> 00:51:58.080 Janet McCue: Well, even getting up at six o’clock is a challenge for me.

00:51:58.830 –> 00:52:02.850 Joseph McElroy: So, are there any people you want to mention to help you along the way, and your research or anything like that.

00:52:02.910 –> 00:52:19.260 Janet McCue: yeah that’s it that’s a really good start that’s a really good question Joseph because it’s you know we dedicated I dedicated this book to all the Librarians and archivists who have helped me along the way with my research, but then there is a countless number of people who.

00:52:21.000 –> 00:52:26.460 Janet McCue: You know who read the manuscript can wise and George Brazil.

00:52:27.180 –> 00:52:50.100 Janet McCue: John White who’s a filmmaker you know when you do a book, you know you know X, Y, and Z you don’t know a B and C very well so Raymond been I’m not a gun Smith I’m not I know very little about guns, but Raymond been helped us with that chapter, he was terrific john white who’s a.

00:52:51.330 –> 00:52:56.970 Janet McCue: filmmaker and has studied them stark love which cares part was a.

00:52:58.230 –> 00:53:00.900 Janet McCue: consultant on you know he read the chapter on.

00:53:02.040 –> 00:53:02.370 Janet McCue: On.

00:53:03.930 –> 00:53:15.840 Janet McCue: You know, on-camera work and start gloves so there were numerous people put me up for me, people who I didn’t even know, would you know, let me live with them for a month Chester and and and.

00:53:16.860 –> 00:53:35.010 Janet McCue: In his wife just you know to open their house to me, and it was you know extraordinary Bill Hart and Alice Heart, though one my heart because Bill has written the first article on George masa and he.

00:53:36.480 –> 00:53:51.300 Janet McCue: opened up his you know his collection of material to allow me to use it and they opened up a bedroom Alice you know, has a room that she’s designated Janet’s bedroom and you know, so there are.

00:53:52.620 –> 00:53:55.800 Joseph McElroy: A lot of people, so I want to thank you for being on my show.

00:53:56.580 –> 00:53:58.470 Joseph McElroy: You a real pleasure and.

00:53:58.770 –> 00:54:00.000 Having a conversation.

00:54:01.380 –> 00:54:06.330 Joseph McElroy: and we look forward to promoting your books and.

00:54:07.380 –> 00:54:10.230 Joseph McElroy: Things that you’re doing the future that I have to do my shoutouts.

00:54:12.720 –> 00:54:13.290 Janet McCue: To being here.

00:54:14.130 –> 00:54:17.070 Janet McCue: pleasure to talk with you and I’m gonna have to go look in the Rose gold some.

00:54:17.400 –> 00:54:19.020 Joseph McElroy: archive and find go.

00:54:20.700 –> 00:54:21.750 Janet McCue: For now, libraries.

00:54:23.100 –> 00:54:30.300 Joseph McElroy: So this podcast you can find gateways to the smokies dot five where you can find a newsletter you can subscribe to, to find out.

00:54:31.020 –> 00:54:43.950 Joseph McElroy: What upcoming events and podcasts are coming down the Pike and we will also feature their various books and things like that relevant to our guests.

00:54:44.400 –> 00:54:53.280 Joseph McElroy: Now I want you to imagine a place evocative of moodle course of the past, the modern environment, but the sheep Appalachian people place.

00:54:54.150 –> 00:55:05.700 Joseph McElroy: For adventure and for relaxation imagine a place, we can fish in the mountain heritage trout stream grill the catch on fire, accompanied by fine wine and craft beers.

00:55:06.090 –> 00:55:19.590 Joseph McElroy: Imagine a place where the old-time music and world cultures, so there is no other place like the Meadowlark motel in Maggie North Carolina your smoky mountain adventure starts, where you stay.

00:55:20.760 –> 00:55:30.540 Joseph McElroy: To find out about the smokies go to which is an information resource

00:55:31.230 –> 00:55:46.110 Joseph McElroy: listing adventure outdoor activities that you can experience them our next week on this podcast we have been Leslie Hartley communications director, the Blue Ridge heritage area who talk about Blue Ridge culture which the smoky mountains, as part of.

00:55:47.130 –> 00:55:52.110 Joseph McElroy: I want to give a shout-out to this network that we are part of talkradio. nyc

00:55:53.130 –> 00:56:07.590 Joseph McElroy: It is a podcast network with lots of shows live shows the one after this is about New York, so you can go from the mountains to most urban areas in the country and get really wonderful.

00:56:08.070 –> 00:56:26.520 Joseph McElroy: Broad experience of life in the United States as talk-radio. nyc and I look forward to talking to you next week on it’s always on Tuesdays from 6 to 7 pm and I want to thank my guests again with you and we’ll see you next time.